Of All The Doctrines Of Rome....

The discussion had to do with one of the false doctrines of the Roman Catholic Church - worship or veneration of saints and/or statues or other representations of them - especially as manifested in the prayers and petitions seeking their intervention or other assistance. A believer had posted a comment concerning a biblical example of God's attitude toward man-made gods:

I used to not capitalize Catholic Church under the same feelings as you are not capitalizing Satan. However, capitalization applies for it being a proper name. It does not signify respect.

Anyway, that's not too important. Here's my point in posting. It seems the Bible says being a god has it's rewards.

Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. - Jeremiah 10:11 KJV

Then the heretic posted:

This is ridiculous and is an example of how fundamentalists stretch the truth. The Catholic Church teaches no such thing. {The Mormons believe this way, however.) Which Cathecism are referring to? I want to check this out. I find it hard to believe that you aren't omitting the word "like", as in "like God".

At this point, I jumped in.

Sheesh! Once again, we are provided evidence that at least some of those who are so quick to defend the teaching of the RCC against the truth have no real idea of just what that demonic cult teaches. You have demonstrated what seems to be another common characteristic of Catholic `apologists' you are either too lazy to check out the reference the writer who originated this thread provided, or you don't know how to do even this simplest of searches.

Like just about every Roman Catholic apologist I have encountered, what you lack in both knowledge and skills, you make up for with excesses of arrogance. I do not doubt you have learned something of the Magisterium's techniques, however. I direct your attention to your refusal to believe what you read and your readiness to suggest that the writer of the post to which you responded omitted the word "like" from his quote. That is Magisterial thinking, all right. If the Scriptures do not say what you want them to say, add a word here, remove a word there and, Voila! You have support for an heretical doctrine.

To make things easy for you, I am going to post paragraph 460, in context, of the Catechism of the Catholic Church that was promulgated by Pope John Paul II in the Apostolic Constitution, Fidei Depositum, on November 11, 1992. This Catechism is available online here.


456 With the Nicene Creed, we answer by confessing: "For us men and for our salvation he came down from heaven; by the power of the Holy Spirit, he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and was made man."

457 The Word became flesh for us in order to save us by reconciling us with God, who "loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins": "the Father has sent his Son as the. Saviour of the world", and "he was revealed to take away sins": [70]

Sick, our nature demanded to be healed; fallen, to be raised up; dead, to rise again. We had lost the possession of the good; it was necessary for it to be given back to us. Closed in the darkness, it was necessary to bring us the light; captives, we awaited a Saviour; prisoners, help; slaves, a liberator. Are these things minor or insignificant? Did they not move God to descend to human nature and visit it, since humanity was in so miserable and unhappy a state?[71]

458 The Word became flesh so that thus we might know God's love: "In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him."[72] "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life." [73]

459 The Word became flesh to be our model of holiness: "Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me." "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me."[74] On the mountain of the Transfiguration, the Father commands: "Listen to him!" [75] Jesus is the model for the Beatitudes and the norm of the new law: "Love one another as I have loved you."[76] This love implies an effective offering of oneself, after his example. [77]

460 The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": [78] "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God."[79] "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." [80] "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."[81] - Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) (c) 1994/1997 United States Catholic Conference, Inc. [My emphasis]

The citation endnoted [80] was lifted from On The Incarnation (De Incarnatione Verbi Dei), written by Athanasius. These words are found in Chapter 8; the third sentence of paragraph 54. A slightly different translation from that quoted is available at this Catholic site. Philip Schaff's entire Early Church Fathers collection is available here..

By the way, "God" is capitalized in these translations, just as the Sacred Congregation on the Doctrine of the Faith caused the word to be capitalized in Paragraph 460 of the current RCC catechism. Let us now source the second quotation offered in para 460 of the Catechism: 'The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.[81]" This was lifted from the work of a Doctor of the Catholic Church, Thomas Aquinas, Opusculum contra errores Graecorum {Against the Errors of the Greeks} (Chapter 57, 1-4), written at the command of Urban IV.

It would appear that you, Sir Romanist Apologizer, are forced to confront a weighty question: Will you accept and believe what the Extraordinary Magisterium of your cult proclaims as truth or will you continue to rely upon your own opinions concerning what is the truth in this matter? As you ponder the alternatives, bear in mind that, according to YOUR cult's rules, to disagree with doctrines of the RCC is hazardous to one's eternal state.

And now, let us examine whether the Romish cult indeed does make mortal men and women into gods.

As has been shown on this board, and elsewhere, innumerable times, the Whore on the Tiber renders worship to a great pantheon of gods, demigods and assorted other supernatural beings. In the earliest days of the Catholic cult, men and women were elevated to divinity on the basis of popular opinion as men were elected to the papacy. Later, as the Romish bishops arrogated ever more authority to themselves, such decisions were made by the princes of the church. These days, it is the Pope who exercises sole authority to make gods.

You may sputter and bluster that the RCC recognizes no God but God, but I doubt many who read here will believe you. After all, allegedly infallible Popes, the allegedly infallible Extraordinary Magisterium and even the lady who sells raffle tickets in the church lobby have declared the obligation of the Catholic faithful to worship not only the Catholic Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but also Mary (God the Mother), and all the little godlets the RCC refers to as saints. So many pretentious RCC apologists, equally as uninformed as yourself it would seem, have come here to argue that such a declaration is untrue. However, after being shown the words of several popes and a council or two, they have tended to shift into defensive mode and map bunny trails while erecting strawmen around their redoubts.

One of the more frustrating things about RCC teaching is that it is so flexible and ill-defined that it is darned near impossible to pin a Catholic apologist down on anything. I recall crossing swords with another cultish apologist who, after being shown in official RCC documents that Catholics are required to worship their Earth-Mother Goddess Mary, responded with the incredible declaration that: "Worship does not always mean worship." And here, of course, is a perfect example of how Romish wordsmiths play inventive havoc with our lovely English tongue. It is indeed true that Rome teaches that only God the Father is to be worshipped with latria, while Mary and the saints and all their various body parts and appurtances are to be venerated or honored with dulia or hyperdulia). However, as with most things Rome teaches, she also teaches these things are to be worshipped, as I have so frequently posted to this board. The wonderful thing about Magisterial teaching is that it covers just about every base, so the Catholic apologist can always be right, even when he holds two opposing positions on the same subject.

There are several degrees of this worship:

if it is addressed directly to God, it is superior, absolute, supreme worship, or worship of adoration, or, according to the consecrated theological term, a worship of latria. This sovereign worship is due to God alone; addressed to a creature it would become idolatry.
When worship is addressed only indirectly to God, that is, when its object is the veneration of martyrs, of angels, or of saints, it is a subordinate worship dependent on the first, and relative, in so far as it honours the creatures of God for their peculiar relations with Him; it is designated by theologians as the worship of dulia, a term denoting servitude, and implying, when used to signify our worship of distinguished servants of God, that their service to Him is their title to our veneration (cf. Chollet, loc. cit., col. 2407, and Bouquillon, Tractatus de virtute religionis, I, Bruges, 1880, 22 sq.).
As the Blessed Virgin has a separate and absolutely supereminent rank among the saints, the worship paid to her is called hyperdulia (for the meaning and history of these terms see Suicer, Thesaurus ecclesiasticus, 1728). - Cabrol, F. (1912). Christian Worship. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Retrieved February 5, 2011 from New Advent: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15710a.htm [Underlining and italics in original. Color emphasis is mine]

Catholics will always deny their worship of Mary, yet in practice they do. When obvious worship of Mary or some bit of bone is pointed out to a Catholic spokesman, the usual reaction is "They are not following the teachings of the Church." Like Pilate, the Magisterium washes its hands of responsibility. Rather than admit to worshipping Mary, they will say they venerate her, or honor her, or some such malarky. You can paint a rock any color you want, but you are still going to have a rock. Changing word associations does not change what actually is going on.

But enough of this. Let me show you where the Catholic church indeed has taught that how the spirits of men and women who died in this world, principle among them Mary, are to be worshiped. I shall do that by drawing from two official catechisms of the Catholic church, which were published with all the bells and whistles which authenticate them as teaching the right stuff. I shall also call on a doctor of the church and another great man of Catholic letters. Hope that will rest well with you. This first teaching is from the Baltimore Catechism:

9. Q. What must we do to save our souls?

A. To save our souls, we must worship God by faith, hope, and charity; that is, we must believe in Him, hope in Him, and love Him with all our heart.

"Worship," that is, give Him divine honor. We honor persons for their worth and excellence, and since God is the most excellent, we give Him the highest honors, differing from others not merely in degrees but in kind-divine honors that belong to Him alone. And justly so, for the vilest animal upon the earth is a thousand times more nearly our equal than the most perfect creature, man or angel, is the equal of God. IN SPEAKING OF WORSHIP, THEOLOGIANS GENERALLY DISTINGUISH THREE KINDS, namely: latria or that supreme worship due to God alone, which cannot be transferred to any other creature without committing the sin of idolatry; dulia, or that secondary veneration we give to saints and angels as the special friends of God; hyperdulia, or that higher veneratibn which we give to the Blessed Virgin as the most exalted of God's creatures. It is higher than the veneration we give to the other saints, but infinitely inferior to the worship we give to God Himself. We show God our special honor by never doubting anything He reveals to us, therefore by "faith"; by expecting with certainty whatever He promises, therefore by "hope"; and finally by loving Him more than anyone else in the world, therefore by "charity." - The Baltimore Catechism 4, Lesson 1: ON THE END OF MAN (My emphasis)

Surely a pope's catechism must be an official RCC document. This is a passage from one such catechism:

22 Q. What is the difference between the honour we give to God and the honour we give to the Saints?

A. Between the honour we give to God and the honour we give to the Saints there is this difference, that we adore God because of his infinite excellence, whereas we do not adore the Saints, but honour and venerate them as God's friends and our intercessors with Him. The honour we give to God is called Latria, that is, the worship of adoration; the honour we give to the Saints is called Dulia, that is, the veneration of the servants of God; while the special honour we give to the Blessed Virgin is called Hyperdulia, that is, a special veneration of the Mother of God.(Catechism of Pius X)

Louis-Marie Grignion De Montfort was a Catholic priest and an early activist in the effort to raise little Mary of Nazareth to deity. What follow are taken from a devotional written by him:

30 An infallible and unmistakable sign by which we can distinguish a heretic, a man of false doctrine, an enemy of God, from one of God's true friends is that the heretic and the hardened sinner show nothing but contempt and indifference for our Lady. He endeavours by word and example, openly or insidiously - sometimes under specious pretexts - to belittle the love and veneration shown to her. God the Father has not told Mary to dwell in them because they are, alas, other Esaus.

115. There are several interior practices to true devotion to the Blessed Virgin. Here are the principle ones, stated compendiously: (1) to honor her as the )worthy Mother of God, with the worship of hyperdulia; that is to say, to esteem her and honor her above all the other saints, as the masterpieces of grace, and the first after Jesus Christ, true God and true Man; True Devotion to Mary, by St. Louis-Marie Grignion De Montfor

In Catholic doctrine and practice, to render latria is worship. To venerate is to worship. To render adoration is to worship. To honor is to worship. Pick the definition that suits your immediate need. That is Romanist apologetics in action. This is, Mary IS worshipped as a goddess. More prayers are said to her in Catholic daily and special rituals than to God the Father or Christ the Son or the Holy Spirit. I do not doubt that more statues of Mary adorn Catholic temples than all the other dead men and women who make up the' pantheon of saints combined. Call it what you will. When a person gets to his knees, lights a candle and, tolling his beads looks to a plaster statue of Mary while intoning endless repeteitions of Marian prayers, that is worship. You may call it calisthenics if you wish, but it IS worship.

As Rev. Dr. James A. Wylie wrote in the last century,:

The same worship is rendered to Mary as to Christ. Churches are built to her honour; her shrines are crowded with devotees; enriched with their gifts; and adorned with their votive offerings. To her prayers are addressed as to a divine being, and blessings are asked as from one, who has power to bestow them: Her votaries are taught to pray, 'Spare us, good Lady,' and 'From all evil, good Lady, deliver us.' Five annual festivals celebrate her greatness, and keep alive the devotion of her worshippers. In Roman Catholic countries the dawn is ushered in with hymns to her honour; her praises are again chanted at noon, and the day is closed with an Ave Maria sung to the Lady of Heaven" - The Papacy, James A. Wylie, Chapter XIX, para 4

In that Catechism delivered by the pope in 1992, Catholics are told that it is blasphemy to use the name of the Lord in a disrespectful way.

2148 Blasphemy is directly opposed to the second commandment. It consists in uttering against God - inwardly or outwardly - words of hatred, reproach, or defiance; in speaking ill of God; in failing in respect toward him in one's speech; in misusing God's name. St. James condemns those "who blaspheme that honorable name [of Jesus] by which you are called."[78] The prohibition of blasphemy extends to language against Christ's Church, the saints, and sacred things. It is also blasphemous to make use of God's name to cover up criminal practices, to reduce peoples to servitude, to torture persons or put them to death. The misuse of God's name to commit a crime can provoke others to repudiate religion. Blasphemy is contrary to the respect aue God and his holy name. It is in itself a grave sin. [79]"

My American Heritage dictionary defines the word BLASPHEMY as follows:

a . A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
b . The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.

1. An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct.

The Lord's name is holy. Not only does the Bible teach this, but also the Roman catechism, where we read in Para. 2161:

The second commandment enjoins respect for the Lord's name. The name of the Lord is holy.

Please notice, the teaching concerns the name of the Lord God. Nowhere does it state that the name of Joe Doaks, or Ron Loeffler is holy. I seriously doubt the Roman church would consider it a mortal sin were someone to disrespect the name of Michael Jackson. No! It is the name of the Lord God that is to be rendered such great respect. It is the very name of God. Read the words in Para. 2145 of the Catechism: :

2145 The faithful should bear witness to the Lord's name by confessing the faith without giving way to fear. Preaching and catechizing should be permeated with adoration and respect for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ

That is all well and good, but the official teaching of the Roman Catholic Church is that improper use of the names of Mary and the rest of the dead saints is a sin; a violation of the Commandment against using the name of God in vain (Exodux 20:7). Moving a little down this line of reasoning, are the Catholic faithful to consider the names of Mary and all the other canonized dead People, to be as holy as the name of God? Or are they to consider the names of Mary and all the other canonized dead people to be the names of God? Or of a god? Has the Roman church gotten ahead of herself in her blatant efforts, to elevate Mary to the place of Christ and herself to the role of the Holy Spirit

Don't believe me? Read it for yourself in Para. 2162 of the Catechism: "

2162 The second commandment forbids every improper use of God's name. Blasphemy is the use of the name of God, of Jesus Christ, of the Virgin Mary, and of the saints in an offensive way

There! They did it again. They placed the names of Mary and all those canonized dead people on the same level as the names of God and Christ: Is it unreasonable to suspect that, if the names are to be given the same respect as the names of God, then the ghosts of those dead people are also to be rendered the same respect as the Lord God Himself?

It would appear that, despite all her posturing to the contrary, the Roman Whore does teach that men and women can become gods, has in place procedures for making them such (canonization) and in fact, declares misuse of their names to be a blasphemy.

What is the biblical reward for being a god? Here is how that Jeremiah verse that triggered this exchange reads in context:

3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
6 Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might.
7 Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? for to thee doth it appertain: forasmuch as among all the wise men of the nations, and in all their kingdoms, there is none like unto thee.
8 But they are altogether brutish and foolish: the stock is a doctrine of vanities.
9 Silver spread into plates is brought from Tarshish, and gold from Uphaz, the work of the workman, and of the hands of the founder: blue and purple is their clothing: they are all the work of cunning men.
10 But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation.
11 Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens.
12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.
13 When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens, and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth; he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.
14 Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.
15 They are vanity, and the work of errors: in the time of their visitation they shall perish.
Jeremiah 10:3-15, KJV [My emphasis]

Of course, you will choose to ignore what I have presented and will likely deny the obvious. It matters not, for it is truth and, as Scriptures tell us, the truth shall set us free (John 8:32)

Oh! You who are in bondage to Rome, read the blasphemous words of your pagan church and compare them with the Word of God. Repent! Break away from the Roman jaugernaut while there yet is time. Reach out to Christ, the one true Redeemer

29 October 1999/11 February 2011

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